[TheMuffinMan]

 Wiingless_Angel_Aliice, on 26 August 2011 - 06:58 PM, said:

The person who started this topic stated that Ultimecia wanted to use Time Compression to forge the past, present and future together so she can be happy again...No she wanted to use Time Compression so that no one could beat and kill her.

A reasonable suggestion, probably MORE reasonable than R=U and the same assumption I had initially, she hears about this Squall and Co. who supposedly kill her at some point (with the Time Compression going on the actual event could have happened ANYTIME once time straightens back out)and heads back to stop it, maybe compressing time just so she can find the point where she was killed. Regardless, it's just an opinion, equally valid to going back to happy times which also seems like a pretty decent reason to...kill time, I'd do it.

 Wiingless_Angel_Aliice, on 26 August 2011 - 06:58 PM, said:

The only way Rinoa could be Ultimecia is if Squall and Garden turned on her.

Which IS alluded to by that quote about Squall being her knight forever 'Even if you become the enemy of the world' or whatever which would be some interesting foreshadowing if the theory were true.

 Wiingless_Angel_Aliice, on 26 August 2011 - 06:58 PM, said:

Then why did she pick Seifer as her Knight and not Squall.

Perhaps she chose Siefer instead by accident because of the parallels between him and Squall? And the fact that she had a thing for him at one point too. Her memory is clearly a bit off
I mean, the scar could have brought something back or just the relationship, far-fetched but whatever, so are all of these theories.

 Wiingless_Angel_Aliice, on 26 August 2011 - 06:58 PM, said:

Greiver would of had to exist for there to be a ring and necklace to base it off.

I'm pretty sure it's just a regular lion on the ring and necklace that Squall REFERS to as Griever, and the Griever GF is just a twisted version of that. Whether that monstrous form comes from Squall's mind or it has been twisted that way by hanging out with Rinoa as she transformed into the equally twisted Ultimecia is debatable



I find it difficult to choose a side on this, I'm usually against the people who grasp at straws to come up with this sort of thing but there is so much evidence on both sides (even if it is all conjecture) that to me at least it has come to the point of more or less believing either way because of choice instead of a solid consensus in my mind.

Either way, while I don't really believe it fully, it is definitely fun to discuss because it certainly would add some depth to a villain which to me on my first playthough was basically just another 'Ultimate Evil' sort of thing, despite some other theories (and they are just theories, plausible as they may be) fleshing her out a bit more.

Also, slightly off topic but does someone have a link to a full translation of the FFVIII Ultimania? Because I've only ever found one for IX and the IX Ultimania had MASSES of info not even briefly mentioned in the game, I'd like to see something like that for VIII.

[ShatteredFantasy]

I know I'm way late for this, but now and then...I just can't resist putting my two cents in about this theory. I'll try to make it brief, however.

1) First off - the japanese translation, which has been stated on the first page of this forum, is much more direct towards how Griever comes to be a physical being: "Your feelings, I shall summon the most powerful of things [from them]! The more strongly you feel, that will be what shall torment you. Fufu." This pretty much speaks for itself that Ultimecia JUST THEN brought Griever into existence, thus - had never used him up until this point because he wasn't real - so to speak.

2) Time Compression - the flashes of Ultimecia right after Rinoa. No indication - only further proof of a measly attempt to prove it right. It was mentioned that, whilst affected by Time Compression, unless one believes in their friends and themselves - they will fade from existence; cease to exist. Ultimecia was the one whom cast Time Compression and the flashes of Rinoa were him trying to remember her whilst fighting the effects the spell had on his mind; his memory - hence, the blurriness of Rinoa. It's clear only briefly as he momentarily recalls her, but it doesn't last because just as fast as he remembers her - he starts to forget her again. There is too much going on at this point to accurately make any assumptions; the flashes are too quick and the speed at which the event is occurring (and rapidly increasing, at that), leave little chance to make out any true detail. Also, two people can look a lot alike and NOT be related - or even one the same.

3) "Sorceress have extended lifespans" - That is NEVER actually stated in the game. If it is hinted, it's very vague about such. The only person known in the game to retain their appearance over an extended period of time is Adel, due to her cryonic state. Edea nor Rinoa ever had such happen to them.

4) The game's summary, and the game itself, specifically mentions Ultimecia's true intentions: to become a deity; a living god, incapable of dying, so she may avoid her death at the hands of a Legendary SeeD. Her only motivation was clearly that she did not want to die. Meanwhile, we've seen a few times that Rinoa accepts death in the game - specifically in D-District Prison after Squall was nearly killed by Edea. She didn't even mention him and she wasn't in tears screaming for vengeance because she believed he was dead.

5) The first confrontation: Why would Rinoa/Ultimecia try to kill Squall if her whole reason for doing everything was to have him back? It totally defeats that purpose. If Griever is Squall, Rinoa would not have truly forgotten him if he has been at her side all along. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't try so hard to get someone back and upon finally finding them again - attempt to kill them. It just doesn't work that way.

6) In space - If R=U, why would Ultimecia leave herself to die? That would prevent her from existing in the future. Even through the use of a GF, the characters have NEVER forgotten anything about their physical being. They only ever forgot their past (and supposedly, unused memories), so why would this be an exception to Rinoa? It makes no sense that she would forget whom she once was, so she wouldn't leave herself to die.

I could probably keep going, but I meant to make this short, after all - so, I'll stop here. It's already longer than I'd intended, lol.

This post has been edited by ShatteredFantasy: 24 May 2012 - 09:42 PM

[ShatteredFantasy]

 ShatteredFantasy, on 24 May 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

I know I'm way late for this, but now and then...I just can't resist putting my two cents in about this theory. I'll try to make it brief, however.

1) First off - the japanese translation, which has been stated on the first page of this forum, is much more direct towards how Griever comes to be a physical being: "Your feelings, I shall summon the most powerful of things [from them]! The more strongly you feel, that will be what shall torment you. Fufu." This pretty much speaks for itself that Ultimecia JUST THEN brought Griever into existence, thus - had never used him up until this point because he wasn't real - so to speak.

2) Time Compression - the flashes of Ultimecia right after Rinoa. No indication - only further proof of a measly attempt to prove it right. It was mentioned that, whilst affected by Time Compression, unless one believes in their friends and themselves - they will fade from existence; cease to exist. Ultimecia was the one whom cast Time Compression and the flashes of Rinoa were him trying to remember her whilst fighting the effects the spell had on his mind; his memory - hence, the blurriness of Rinoa. It's clear only briefly as he momentarily recalls her, but it doesn't last because just as fast as he remembers her - he starts to forget her again. There is too much going on at this point to accurately make any assumptions; the flashes are too quick and the speed at which the event is occurring (and rapidly increasing, at that), leave little chance to make out any true detail. Also, two people can look a lot alike and NOT be related - or even one the same.

3) "Sorceress have extended lifespans" - That is NEVER actually stated in the game. If it is hinted, it's very vague about such. The only person known in the game to retain their appearance over an extended period of time is Adel, due to her cryonic state. Edea nor Rinoa ever had such happen to them.

4) The game's summary, and the game itself, specifically mentions Ultimecia's true intentions: to become a deity; a living god, incapable of dying, so she may avoid her death at the hands of a Legendary SeeD. Her only motivation was clearly that she did not want to die. Meanwhile, we've seen a few times that Rinoa accepts death in the game - specifically in D-District Prison after Squall was nearly killed by Edea. She didn't even mention him and she wasn't in tears screaming for vengeance because she believed he was dead.

5) The first confrontation: Why would Rinoa/Ultimecia try to kill Squall if her whole reason for doing everything was to have him back? It totally defeats that purpose. If Griever is Squall, Rinoa would not have truly forgotten him if he has been at her side all along. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't try so hard to get someone back and upon finally finding them again - attempt to kill them. It just doesn't work that way.

6) In space - If R=U, why would Ultimecia leave herself to die? That would prevent her from existing in the future. Even through the use of a GF, the characters have NEVER forgotten anything about their physical being. They only ever forgot their past (i.e. - the events therein - and supposedly, unused memories). When going through the memory of their time at the orphanage, not one of the six friends ever asked "Who is that?" upon seeing their past self walk onto the scene - instead, immediately jumping into a memory about when they set off fireworks. The only presence they questioned was that of Seifer - so why would this be an exception to Rinoa? It makes no sense that she would forget whom she once was, so she wouldn't leave herself to die.

I could probably keep going, but I meant to make this short, after all - so, I'll stop here. It's already longer than I'd intended, lol.

This post has been edited by ShatteredFantasy: 24 May 2012 - 09:48 PM

[kweh!]

It never dies.

[Tunika]

did anyone realise that Rinoa has dark eyes, but Ultimecia yellow?